Dr. Muiz Adeyemi Banire, is a former National Legal Adviser of the All Progressives Congress. He had previously served as Commissioner for Special Duties in the governor’s office and Commissioner for Transportation of Lagos State. He was also a former Commissioner for the Environment and Justice in Lagos State. In this interview with Mayowa Samuel, the Senior Advocate of Nigeria explained why he left the party and also predicted imminent implosion in the ruling APC, a situation that will make it difficult for the party to retain power in 2023. Excerpts:
For clarity purposes, are you still a card-carrying member of the ruling All Progressives Congress?
I’m not. I’m not a member of the All Progressives Congress. I left in July 2018.
What led to your leaving the party?
Because of their principles, their ideals, I couldn’t cope with them, particularly on the issue of the rule of law and their compliance.
You said in a recent interview that you will support an aspirant who is 60 years and below to become president. This means you are ruling out the likes of Bola Tinubu, Yemi Osinbajo, Orji Uzor Kalu, Atiku Abubakar and so on. Don’t you think competence has nothing to do with age?
Competence has a lot to do with it. That is just one of so many factors to be considered in determining who the president should be. You have to look at his educational qualification, he must be educated. One thing is to be educated; another thing is to be exposed. He must be somebody that has the necessary exposure. He must be somebody that has a very sound pedigree. What has he done in his life before? We must ask that question. Has he done anything successfully? Has he entered a business that he has been able to survive in? In my own very strong view, we need to know his mental stability, how physically fit is the person. These are germane questions. In fact, in recent times, I’ve added one other question. A very good candidate for that position must have a good sense of the history of Nigeria. He must know the various ethnic nationalities and their peculiarities, in order to be able to administer effectively in a manner that will not lead to the cry of marginalization. These are the crucial elements that have to be put to consideration.
So, it’s not about age alone. Age is just one of so many factors.
Regardless of whoever becomes the presidential flag bearer of the APC for the 2023 elections, do you see the party winning the general elections?
To be candid, it’s going to be tough because internally, they have so many factions now that I don’t see them being reconciled before the general elections, you know the danger in that. A lot of them will go and do anti-party. You see, our people, except we are deceiving ourselves, there’s so much tension in the land in terms of insecurity, agitation for restructuring and agitation for succession. All these people naturally are not happy with the APC, not ruling out poverty, not ruling out unemployment. You know the unemployment figure by the National Bureau of Statistics and see what it is now. If you are unemployed, will you be happy? It’s as simple as that, it’s logic.
The case of god fatherism in the country has contributed to the success of the APC to a very large extent but many have reservations about political godfathers in politics. What are your thoughts on political god fatherism?
For me, political god fatherism is a menace. We must tame it; we must do everything humanly possible to eliminate it. It’s one of the harbingers of bad governance in Nigeria. Because if I’m your godfather now, regardless of your competence, I want to put you somewhere because I believe you are loyal to me, even if you have not qualified. That is what is killing us as a nation. So, it’s an evil that we must get rid of.
You also predicted that the APC will soon implode due to the constant violation of the rule of law. After you left the position of the APC National Legal Adviser, you described the party as a “bad company”. Many believe you are making these negative assertions about the party because you are not holding a public office presently. Is that the case?
It’s not true at all. You know, I’ve only been an advocate of alternative addresses, that every politician must have an alternative address. If you have an alternative address, you don’t want to kill yourself, you are not desperate about anything. And then, some of us are not holding public office and that is why when people insinuate for years that I want to contest for elections, I just laugh. Once you know yourself that you are not cut out for it, don’t go near it. I’m one of those people that cannot stomach so many things that go on in governance, so the best thing is to respect myself and sit in my house quietly. And when I say that it’s a bad company, look, APC was formed and was conceived to be a party of the nobles, that was the founding principle. Ask anybody, the founding philosophy was that we get as many honourables together but I told them at a point when they started harvesting all manners of people that are dishonourable into the party. I said no, we were losing our founding philosophy. When I now discovered so many people who we have as APC people, as in 2015, we were condemning, we now started harvesting them all over the whole place and you now expect me to sit down in their midst again, when we were the same people condemning them. No, that company cannot be my company again, it’s just natural, it’s simple. That is what is causing their problem today. Those people they were condemning in 2015, today constitute 70 percent of the leadership of that party.
Just like the rumours that the APC was considering former President Goodluck Jonathan to be one of its presidential aspirants…
Now, you can see everybody come inside. If everybody comes, everybody cannot stay inside. Some must go outside.
Are you having thoughts about joining a new political party?
Not for now. I have no choice now. You know I told you, people that I’m thinking of maybe one day, I will decide too that I want to run for the presidency. So, I might desire to run for president too, so don’t be too shocked about that. I don’t know which party now but certainly not the big ones, that’s what I can tell you. I don’t necessarily have to win but at least, I will present myself. I can talk and people will listen to me and if they are convinced, let them vote but if they are not convinced, so be it. You know, if you don’t win, you go back to your house, and nobody will deny you entry.
Is that your next political aspiration?
It must be, inevitably. We can’t be talking, talking. We must also act on our talk.
How’s the relationship between you and Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu as we speak?
Very cordial. Have you forgotten that I even went to see him in England? Things haven’t changed; it’s still the same thing.
In 2018, Senators Remi Tinubu, Olamilekan Adeola and Gbenga Ashafa were against your nomination by President Buhari to be Chairman, Board of Directors of AMCON. Why were they against your nomination?
I wouldn’t know because I’ve never asked any of them. What they told me and what I understood was that they were instructed by Bourdillon.
And he (Bourdillon) didn’t have any issues against you?
Of course, we were not on the best of terms. You know, some of them too, even if they didn’t send them assignments, they go on their own. It is even possible that the man did not tell them, but on their own, because they want to be good boys, they will now go out to do what they were not instructed to do. Even just like President Buhari that some of his aides will do what the man would not have instructed or directed but they just want to be in the good books of the man. It may well be a case like that. So, you can’t rule out that possibility. I’m used to such, I enjoy it. I eventually triumphed by the grace of God.
The National Assembly is proposing to give immunity to the Senate President, Speaker of the House of Representatives and judicial heads. What’s your position on that? And do you believe judicial heads need immunity?
I’m totally opposed to it. Do they want to be doing the wrong things? What are they afraid of? No! Like an average Ibo man would say, ‘if na joke, make you stop am’. Don’t carry it too far. By the time they finish that one, local government chairmen will say they want immunity. We behave like clowns these days. Judicial heads don’t need immunity because they will never do anything wrong in terms of criminality. And if they do, as we have been saying, why should they be immune? For example, if a judge decides to take bribes, why should he be exempted from prosecution or investigation? How? Why? It doesn’t make sense.
The upper and lower chambers are also proposing life pensions for the Senate president, his deputy, as well as the House of Reps Speaker and his deputy. What’s your take on that?
I reject it in its entirety. It’s absurd. Were they not the same people that went all over the places to beg the people they wanted to serve? Did they go to their houses to invite them to come and serve us? Why must they then be our liability forever? How? Please, they should remove all these things. That is why people are killing themselves over positions. Some people will make the place so attractive, so luxurious. That is the problem we have. I was a commissioner in Lagos State for a long time and I tell you for free that we need not be full-time commissioners, we should have just been doing part-time and we will be doing our jobs. Largely, our job was basically policy formulation, we were not implementers. It’s for the Permanent Secretary and others, that’s their job. Why should I now sit in the office from morning till night formulating policies? The same thing should be extended to all others, including law-making. That’s my very strong view.
President Buhari Friday finally assented to the electoral amendment bill but not without expressing his grouse about a provision in the bill that directs political office holders to resign their appointments if they are aspiring for an elective position. What’s your comment on that?
Well, it’s good that he has even signed something. He doesn’t need to oppose that section of the bill because it’s simply unconstitutional. The constitution has covered the ground. The constitution said it’s 30 days until the general election, so it’s a waste of energy. They’ve wasted their time in enacting that one.
What about the fears that these public office holders may have access and use public funds to execute their campaigns to attain their ambitions?
Very true but what is the job of the various anti-corruption agencies? Are they not the ones to monitor all those things? Let them go and do their job. That doesn’t mean that you must disenfranchise somebody because of your own incompetence.
The president’s assent to the bill has now come less than a year to the 2023 elections. His delay has affected INEC’s preparations. Do you think the February 18 date fixed by the electoral body is still feasible?
For me, it’s still very realistic. All plans must just be on deck. Somehow, I tend to believe in that man. The chairman seems to be a very good man. I only hope he has capable, competent and honest men to work with. If he has honest men to work with, there is no challenge that is insurmountable, if they are dedicated and resolute.
Recently, there was a back and forth between the Minister of Justice, Abubakar Malami and the Chief Justice of Nigeria, Tanko Mohammed regarding the drama surrounding the invasion of Justice Mary Odili’s residence, the recent conflicting court judgements and others. What is your view of the Nigerian justice system as it is now?
You’ve brought up two things, the rule of law and the justice system. The rule of law is abashed in Nigeria. The justice system too is challenged. The way out is that the judiciary must be given full autonomy, financial and otherwise, they must be given full autonomy. You see, there are so many challenges the judiciary is facing, right from the funding. The funding is very poor, terribly poor. Imagine a situation where a justice’s salary has been stagnant for over 12 years and you expect them to perform optimally. No, it can’t happen. The infrastructure is not there, they still write largely in long hands. At times, there is no light. I’m aware that there is a particular court I went to last week and I understand that in the last two weeks, they’ve not had light, so they couldn’t sit. That’s how bad it is. The only generator they have had collapsed. The judiciary has a lot of problems. Even during the recruitment process, the politicians are struggling and striving to hijack the process entirely. The judiciary must get its independence fully from the executive and the legislature. They must be on their own as provided by the constitution.
How would you describe the APC’s regard for justice, rule of law and court orders?
The APC as a party while I was there, I made sure that they follow it, and I think to a large extent, as a party, they have been complying, to a large extent, including that of Adams Oshiomole, if you remember. So, I think as a party, in terms of compliance, they are not doing badly.
You’ve been a commissioner thrice in Lagos. How would you rate the development of the state so far? Has it been to your expectations?
No, I’m not satisfied, we still have a long way to go.
