The governorship candidate of the Labour Party in Lagos State in the 2023 election, Gbadebo Rhodes-Vivour, says the 2027 election will provide the opportunity for Nigerians to dismantle the syndrome of state capture. In this interview, Rhodes-Vivour scores President Bola Tinubu low on the state of the nation and other issues. Excerpts:
What’s your assessment of President Bola Tinubu’s government so far?
I’ll go as far as saying that the situation in the country is worse now than what it was before he (Tinubu) took over from former President Muhammadu Buhari. Remember he promised to introduce policies that would lift Nigerians out of poverty and pleaded that we bear with him for a short period of time, assuring that things would be better.
But that has not been the case. Petrol price keeps going up and we see all the confusion with the Dangote Refinery which was intended to bring down the price and reduce the importation of crude oil which was supposed to bring about a more robust economy, being that the demand for foreign exchange would reduce, based on the reduction of the import of petroleum products.
But that has not been the reality. When he came into government, I think he met the foreign exchange rate at between N600 to N700 to a dollar. Today, it’s about N1, 560 to a dollar. And it’s so sad that the person that met the dollar rate at N700 is telling us to clap for him now, when the dollar rate is N1, 560.
Besides that, you could see the huge insecurity across the country and how they put politics above the interest of the people in Rivers State. They declared a state of emergency in the state over a political issue.
Now compare that to what happened in Lagos State, where the state assembly removed a Speaker over alleged financial impropriety. But, somehow, they were forced to accept him (Speaker) back under falsehood, propaganda and lie that he would come back and resign. Now, the guy (Speaker) has played wayo (tricks) on them. And you could see that the push came from the president.
So, all the allegations against the Speaker have been swept under the carpet and the president is saying that’s the way it should be; that the Speaker should remain in office. So you could see that the quality of our democracy has gone down the toilet.
The quality of our economy has gone down the toilet. Our morals and values have gone down the toilet. Could you imagine that the DSS (Department of State Services) dissociated themselves from the men that wore black who went to disrupt proceedings at the Lagos State House of Assembly? Till today, nobody has explained where those men came from. So, slowly, you could see the emergence of a ‘Banana Republic’; it doesn’t start overnight. It starts with little by little desecration of democracy.
“Nigerians are facing something they’ve never experienced in recent times. So how does anybody in his right mind nurse a governorship ambition when your father is at the helm of affairs in this kind of situation?”
This was how the wahala (Wild Wild West) that happened in the then South Western region started and eventually culminated in the Biafra civil war. So, this is something I believe that Nigerians should be looking at.
We need to understand the consequences of the election. We should understand the character and peculiarities of the people we elect into offices. What we need now are servant leaders. We need leaders who would go in there to serve and not those who believe that the country belongs to them. We need people in the mould of Alhaji Lateef Jakande, Chief Obafemi Awolowo, Maitama Sule and so on.
But how do we elect such people, when in your own words, ‘our democracy has gone down the toilet’?
Democracy in the idealised sense is dead. For instance, all of us went into the 2023 elections believing that the electronic transmission system would work. We believed that with the technology we brought into our election, it would make the process more seamless; something similar to what we saw in South Africa and Ghana recently, where the ruling party conceded defeat and congratulated the opposition before the results of the election were announced.
That was what we expected in Nigeria as the giant of Africa. But that was not the case. So, when you see what’s going on with INEC, how result sheets are completely mutilated, you see 20 votes changed to 120. Obviously, people cannot believe in that system. But, at the same time, the people’s voices count.
We have to dismantle the syndrome of state capture. These people are not kings. They’re not born to rule. They’re not Lords over us. The same people who led the struggle for democracy are the ones who are now fomenting this level of state capture that is even worse than the military government.
These people have taken corruption to another level, corruption that comes with impunity. You can steal any amount of money, once you cross over to the ruling party, APC, ‘you’re born again, and your sins are forgiven’.
We saw videos of the chairman of the APC stacking dollars in his ‘babariga’ dress without shame. And it’s like it never happened because he’s the chairman of the ruling party. What example are you setting for the young ones? That’s why I say our values have gone down the toilet. We need to be better organised.
People must understand that the election is a two-day event, so that when they vote, they need to stay there and ensure that their votes count. Don’t vote and go home. It’s like a war. You either get power through the barrel of a gun or through the ballot box. The situation we are in now is that the people in power are practicing both. They’re having their way through violence and intimidation, and that’s not the way. So when you see that, you also must stand up, because a bully will continue to push you to the wall until you enter the wall if you fail to react.
The people who are experiencing the current hardship must stand up and say we want servant leaders, enough of these strong men who feel that the country is their inheritance. No! Nigeria is bigger than them. People must be organised at the ward level, polling unit level and at the collation centre. I expect that at the next election, the Independent National Electoral Commission officials must know that there will be consequences if they steal that election.
But it appears as if poverty has been weaponised by those in power who compromise individuals and institutions with money in order to have their way. How can we have a credible election?
Even when you compare the number of people that come out to vote to the number of registered voters, you’re still looking at less than 30 per cent. There are a huge number of people who do not care about the amount of money you offer, they would still vote for the candidate of their choice. Those were the people who gave us the votes at the last election in Lagos State. I call them the silent majority.
As politicians, we have to show that we’re worth their votes because they don’t want your money. So we’re doing that by showing consistency, by holding the government accountable, by offering solutions, by showing that we are a viable opposition and their interest is our interest. We are also showing them love and care. So, it’s about capacity.
His Excellency, Peter Obi, is going all over the North, sinking bore holes, visiting secondary schools, primary health care centres. He’s showing that the problem in Nigeria bothers him. I’m doing mine with my primary health insurance scheme, going round Lagos giving people free health care insurance.
We launched our Lagos App recently, about a week and half ago. We’ve registered almost 15,000 people and validated about 8,000 people. So, these people are going to have access to skill acquisition programmes, lotteries, portals to look for jobs; they’re going to have access to health insurance.
These are things we are doing to show that we love and care for our people. We don’t have to wait until it’s time for an election before we do these things just to get the people’s votes.
I believe that when people see that consistency, they would be more likely able to stand up. And another thing we have been able to show is that we are not people that can be bought by the ruling party. We’ve shown a level of integrity. You cannot talk when your mouth is full. So, the fact that we’re able to take them up to the Supreme Court, stand our ground, is a testament that people are watching and they’re seeing our credibility. And we are going to continue to engage the people and organise ourselves and our structure better.
You know there’s the kind of suffering that you experience and you would reason that even if I eat today and tomorrow, would that be enough for me to go hungry for another four years? How much do they give them, N2, 000 or N5, 000; those who come out on the election days to receive money to cast their votes are typically the hungry people. There’s another category of people who do not have money, but they have conscience. These people think beyond the hunger that they experience. There are also people who are educated, exposed and want a better Nigeria. They are not interested in your money, they want a government that can create jobs, so they could be gainfully employed and do well for themselves.
They don’t want you to give them fish, they want to fish for themselves. Then there are a whole lot of other people who are employers of labour who would come out and campaign. They know that if ‘this man comes into office, he would create a healthy environment for business to thrive’. It’s all about everybody coming together and giving us servant leaders that we deserve.
At the end of the day, will the people’s votes count when politicians would instruct their party members to win at all costs and let the losers go to court, knowing that the judiciary would be compromised?
That narrative has to change. Unfortunately, the last election has really robbed a lot of institutions in Nigeria of their credibility. Go and ask an average Nigerian what he thinks about INEC. Ask Nigerians if they believe they can get justice from the judiciary. Ask them if they believe that INEC is doing the right thing or they are just an arm of the ruling party, the APC. But the important thing is that votes count.
If votes did not count, Peter Obi would not have won in Lagos. People can only rig where they are popular, or where you have a very low turnout of voters. The higher the turnout, the harder it is to rig the election. You cannot rewrite results if somebody is not compromised.
The problem is that there’s no trust in the system, so you must behave like someone who has no trust in the system. You must understand that an election is a two-day event and be prepared to stay at the polling units and collation centres to ensure that your vote counts. Don’t vote and go home. If you need to take your food and mattress to the polling units and collation centre do that to protect your vote.
We need to organise ourselves very well. When INEC officials are overwhelmed by the people they’ll be forced to do the right thing. And if they fail to do the right thing there will be consequences. After the election there are consequences. Some people cannot afford to pay their children’s school fees. The people who are going to determine your consequences in the next four years must also have consequences if they don’t do the right things.
Do you think that holding all the elections the same day would reduce electoral malpractices?
I don’t know if it will make any difference. But I do know that there are systems that, if done properly, there will be no problem. Take a look at Ghana’s election and that of South Africa; those are how elections ought to be conducted. I agree that the cost of conducting elections is huge in terms of the printing and movement of sensitive materials and other logistics involved. If all the elections are conducted on the same day, it would help reduce cost. I feel it’s a much more efficient thing to do.
The son of President Bola Tinubu, Seyi, is said to have declared his ambition to run for the governorship of Lagos State in 2027. Do you consider him a serious threat to your own ambition?
To me, everybody that shows interest in the 2027 Lagos State governorship race is a threat. Everybody’s free to have an ambition. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. What I, however, don’t understand is if my father is running a country, and people are facing unprecedented hardship, I cannot fathom how, in that situation, I would be thinking about running for governor.
As a family, we should be worried about how our policies are affecting the people and ask, ‘what can we do’? Instead, you’re talking about how you can become governor of the state. It’s like that story in the Bible where there was a king in Israel, people were suffering, and then the king died, and his son succeeded him on the throne, and the people were begging him to lessen their suffering. And he said he would make their suffering twice harder than what it was during his father’s reign. I say that because it’s about empathy and sensitivity.
There’s no way he (Seyi) and his team could pretend not to have seen the people’s sufferings. There’s no way the president’s family has not seen the video of people shouting ebi npa wa, ebi npa wa! (We are hungry, we are hungry!). That was the first time such a thing would happen when a president’s convoy was passing. The suffering that Nigerians are facing is something they’ve never experienced in recent times. So how does anybody in his right mind nurse a governorship ambition ‘when your father is at the helm of affairs in this kind of situation? Are you not feeling ashamed? Do you not care or feel empathy for the people? I don’t understand that.
But Seyi has been busy dishing out palliatives to the people, especially in the North…?
That is commendable. But there are also questions about how the contract of the Coastal Road from Lekki to Calabar, which involved huge amounts of money, was awarded to the Chagoury Group without the due process of bidding. We cannot say whether Nigeria is getting a good deal or not because the process of awarding the contract was not transparent. And the president’s son is on the board of the company that got the contract. There’s a conflict of interest. Politicians have a way of taking billions and then giving back millions for the people to clap for them. But it’s your money they are giving you.
What’s your view on the sexual harassment saga involving the Senate President, Godswill Akpabio, and Senator Natasha Akpoti-Uduaghan?
It’s an unfortunate development. Look at Namibia; their president is a woman. I think the top three positions in government are held by women in that country. We’re supposed to be creating a safe space for more women in Nigerian politics. Unfortunately, you see stories like what is going on in the Senate.
That’s why women are not interested in Nigerian politics. And concerning that particular woman, Senator Natasha Akpoti-Uduaghan, when you follow her trajectory in getting to the Senate, she fought tooth and nail against the former Kogi State governor, Yahaya Bello. You look at a situation where they broke the rules and tried everything to make sure that she did not win the election, but she won. That’s a solid politician! She’s loved by her people clearly. It’s not just about her, they’re denying so many people a say in governance. By suspending her from the Senate, they’re taking away the rights of the people she represents to have a say in governance. It’s just so sad that this cliché is allowed to continue.
And how do you see INEC’s role in the move to get her out of the Senate through a recall process?
They would try, but from what I saw with the elections, her people love her. I saw videos when they tried to trick people to sign her recall letter by promising to give them money and, eventually, when they found out what it was, a lot of them walked away. That shows the love the people have for her.
My prayers are with her. I pray that she perseveres and triumphs at the end of the travails. I thought that someone like Senator Godswill Akpabio would have handled this matter differently. I’ve seen videos where he was shouting and being unruly in the Senate under the leadership of Senator Bukola Saraki. And I saw how Senator Saraki handled the situation well. So, why do we have this kind of victimisation? This matter did not have to get to this level. Those ruling us now are so power-drunken. They believe that the national resources are their own and there to be taken. And that’s very bad.
What do you make of former Rivers State governor, Nyesom Wike’s stronghold on the People’s Democratic Party though he is serving as a minister under the ruling party, APC?
In the PDP situation, I can only speak as an outsider. Former Governor Wike was financially responsible for the party for a very long time, and he built a lot of loyalists who are just blind to support him. So, it’s not about the interest of the party; the party can die for all they care. They’re just playing a game. It’s a cohort of men and they say ‘birds of a feather flock together’.
You see Senator Akpabio in the Senate, you see Wike, and you see President Tinubu. These are men who believe they can take what they want by whatever means, regardless of the will of the people. Unfortunately, in Nigeria, we have normalised that and call it politics. But politics should be for the people’s betterment. Once a person is doing politics to your detriment you might reconsider what you classify as politics. You might want to redefine it.
If the man that always uses agbero’s (hoodlums), violence and money gets into office, and constantly your life is getting worse and worse, then, maybe, you need to say that’s not the kind of politics you want to play anymore. You want the politics of ideas, politics of servant leadership. You want a politics of vision, empathy, compassion; politics of love for your people. So, if you’re not doing that type of politics, then you’re not playing politics. We need to redefine politics because the kind of politics we have today is the redefinition of the politics of Alhaji Lateef Jakande, Obafemi Awolowo, Herbert Macaulay, Henry Carr, among others.
Ahead of the 2027 elections, do you think the opposition parties would truly merge to oust the APC at the centre?
Oh! It’s happening already. I still maintain that the only way to dislodge the APC at the federal level in 2027 is for the opposition parties to come together and form a formidable alliance against the ruling party.
But the obvious concern is how the alliance would come up with a consensus candidate for the position of president. Who would you tip as your best consensus candidate?
The best foot forward as far as I’m concerned is His Excellency, Mr. Peter Obi. He’s the most revolutionary in terms of thinking, servant leadership, accountability and openness out of all the options. This is somebody APC threw everything at and he would tell you ‘go and verify’.
You can criticise him for investing public funds when he was a governor, but you can’t call him a thief. He’s very prudent and that’s the kind of person we need. He constantly tries to educate himself by moving around the world to see how the countries that are doing well manage their resources. He doesn’t just talk about the problems of Nigeria, but would proffer solutions. He doesn’t pretend about it, he genuinely cares. The closest we can get in a servant leader, as far as I’m concerned, is His Excellency, Mr. Peter Obi.
The National Assembly is moving to stop candidates above the age of 60 from contesting for president or governor. What’s your take on that?
I think that is very myopic. I’ve met some extremely brilliant and highly intelligent older men and women. It’s not about age, it’s about health. If you are at an age where you’re ill and you’re constantly going abroad for medical treatment, and we’re not enjoying the presence of the president we elected, what’s the point in running for an election in the first place?
I’m not criticising anybody for being sick because God gives health. But, there should be a level of medical check-ups that disqualifies a person. If you’re not feeling well, go and focus on how to get better. Just running a business in this country is so challenging, not to mention running a country. You can barely sleep! You’re not there for ‘jaiye jaiye’ (enjoyment) or travelling from one country to another, while the people are suffering and gnashing their teeth.
If you want a working president, then I would be looking forward to a health check by an impartial body that would give a score, because you need that energy and vibrancy; you need your brain to be sharp. I do think that at a certain point age should matter. Maybe 60 is too young, perhaps, we should be looking at 70 upwards, because there’s an age you get to that gets you disconnected from the majority of your population.
And if you’re disconnected from the majority of your population you cannot feel their pulse. If you’re disconnected from the majority of your population you cannot solve their problems. Nigerians want more electricity, better roads and water in our taps. The Senate should engage in debates such as what kind of nuclear energy do we need? What kind of tax we are going to pay? Is it progressive tax or a flat rate? These are the kind of debates that the Senate should engage in. Unfortunately that’s not what we have.
The National Assembly is also proposing that the president be elected from the Senate and a Prime Minister from the House of Representatives. What’s your position on that?
That’s like going back to a parliamentary system of government, something like a quasi-parliamentary system of government, where out of the people elected into the legislature, you now select one of the lawmakers to become the head of the government. But, generally, even in England, the Prime Minister runs for the office. He does not run through the parliament.
What I expect to see is a type of government where no group of people feels left out; a rotational government that is sacrosanct. The best of candidates would then slug it out and the result would be to the benefit of the people. But when it is about voting for me because I’m Igbo, Yoruba or Hausa; or oh, these people want to take over, we’ll just continue with the ‘garbage in and garbage out’.
We have to have more options in deciding who is going to determine our destiny in the next four years. And it is not just about deciding our destiny, but how they can move the country forward or backward. And taking it backward will not only affect you, but also affect your children that are not registered to vote. It’s a very big thing. I don’t think Nigerians have come to terms with the effects and consequences of electioneering.
“I still maintain that the only way to dislodge the APC at the federal level in 2027 is for the opposition parties to come together and form a formidable alliance against the ruling party”
Before President Bola Tinubu came into office, he called for restructuring of the country. Do you think he’s doing that?
First, I would ask what type of restructuring? From what I have seen so far, bringing back the old national anthem that we were singing when we were in primary school is retrogressive. I mean, the president should be looking forward to it. For me, you cannot be thinking that the best of your days are behind you.
Look to the future, where the world is going. Look at artificial intelligence, genetics, science; you need to understand the concept of knowledge now. People have tools on their phones that have all the knowledge about law, so do we need to go to the library to read all the law books to memorise? No! You have new tools.
It’s just like somebody using a typewriter to write in the present age when you have computers, laptops and all types of digital media. The future is a very unique one. We have new innovations in health care and so many things. Dubai is using AI (Artificial Intelligence) to run their government, creating an electronic kind of government. There’s so much to look forward to.
There are people whose vision of restructuring is to go backward; let’s restructure and go back to the Eastern and Western government. No. Why would I want that? I want my governor to be in charge of Lagos. More power should be devolved from the centre to the states. Let us run a truly federal system. The problem is not so much in the system, it’s how it’s being run because those in power pick and choose what the Federal Government means to them based on the power that they want to exert. And, obviously, now that President Bola Tinubu is at the centre of it, he does not want to lose some of the powers at his disposal.
The states should be able to generate their revenues and run their affairs. We copied our democracy from America; they should go and look at how America runs its government. Look at the power that New York has. Look at the power that each of the federating states in America has. How do they do their own businesses? How do they manage their own waste products and so on? If we want to restructure, let’s have a proper financial restructuring, one where when you generate money and much of the money stays with you, it does not go to the centre.
That kind of restructuring is what I want to see, not the kind of restructuring where we go back to the Eastern region, Northern region, Western region, and Mid-West region. There was a reason all of that fell apart. We have to create a system that is peculiar to us. This copy and paste is not the way forward for us.
